below is a conversation started by my hubs, brent, on twitter. my lil’bro (not really but i’ve adopted him) jumped in with his thoughts.
i found their convo very interesting thus causing me to re-evaluate my own blog, and blogging in general. the “why’s” of it all. it is very easy to get preoccupied with blogging, twitter and inundated with my in-box. it’s equally easy to get sucked in to others blogs and twitter updates.
but is any of it beneficial? am i investing my time into things that are challenging me, spurring me onto growth? or is it all just sucking my time?
well, i wouldn’t say it all is. but i do think i need to be a bit more picky with how, and where, i invest my time. for those who don’t understand social media at all, they might say give it up entirely. and they’re entitled to their opinion. but unless you are part of this community, you just won’t get it. basically, it’s todays version of pen-pal’s.
here’s what i’ve seen in the past several months. there are lots of people with depth, knowledge, wisdom and creativity in the circle i frequent. i believe there are plenty of fresh voices and ideas out there, but they’re not noticed.
my thoughts on that…”little people” (and i use that term very lightly just to make a point. none of us are “little people”) of social media…don’t stop using your voice. just because you’re not “popular” it does not make what you have to say less valuable. others promotion of you does not dictate your worth. ironically, i see a lot of well known peeps getting notoriety for essentially saying…nothing. you can put glitter on poop, but it’s still poop.
if you feel blogging, twitter and other forms of social media have become mediocre, at best, then change it.
what do you want to see change? what are you looking for?
(conversation starts at bottom)
I love what Josh had to say on this, cause it challenged my perspective a bit.
Spiritually, I think we tend to get ourselves lost in opinion and theology and thought…way too often. Blogs become a place to “rephrase” something and pawn it off as new thought. I think of Christians around the world without access to online communities. Do they not learn and grow without access to the thousands of blogs and Twitter feeds many of us have? I think they do just fine. If not better.
When it comes to job roles. I struggle with this. There are so many people doing things I do. Who to listen to? Often I just grab those I need to hear at that moment. But, thats messy. One week its here, next week its there. Its tough to tap into a source or sources that truly teach and lead me the way I believe I need to be taught and lead. And, unfortunately, I live in an area that does not have a lot of resource or community that I can bounce ideas off of. I have to look to social media for my support.
In Art and Creativity, we have massive amounts of people/blogs/influences. But, I rarely see the original. The unique. It is often lost in a sea of mediocre and copycats. I want to find those that are fresh voices.
And yet, I agree with Josh. His perspective is that we need to become that fresh voice. For ourselves. We need to stop listening and watching and go for it. Make our own path. Create something unique, that only we can do, because only we are capable. And, its not about approval. Its about living.
I had someone on Twitter respond to me regarding this conversation…”change who you follow”. There is a lot of wisdom in this. We become what influences us. And if we are influencing and creating for ourselves, there is something very natural about this. We become more like who we are supposed to be.
So, its finding the balance. I seem to be entering a season of learning. but I have to balance what I am hearing and being taught with what I am doing and creating. The danger is for me to go fill my twitter and blog feeds with everything I can that has to do with what I do. But, now more than ever, in a time of learning, I need to be selective and cautious of who has my ear.
My advice in being selective, is to find the people who wow you… who's work you look at and go "holy crap." It's probably not as easy from a music perspective… but maybe just in a sense of creativity, perhaps looking into other areas?
From a tech perspective, its been hard. But I know they are out there!
I can't wait to see the comments on this post.
I'm glad Brent said something about this today, because I've felt my presence on social media waning, and have struggled to put words to the why of it, and this conversation really helped me to do that.
A lot of people say that "you are the sum of your five best friends," and while I think that has some truth to it, lately I haven't really wanted those five people to be people whom I've never met, and I know only through blogs/twitter (with obvious exceptions being those of you I've had the luxury to meet in person). For whatever reason, speaking solely through twitter/blogs isn't doing it for me anymore. I crave interaction on a more personal level. I want physical community, and when I can't have that, I at least want to know the person on the other end of the IM window knows when I'm being sarcastic, or when I am actually sad and covering it up with wit.
These days, I am way more interested in writing my own path. There is a time and place for learning (reading what other people are doing) and while I fully endorse that, I also believe there is a time for action. Lately, I'm sick and tired of reading what we SHOULD be doing, whether it's spiritually, vocationally, social justice-ly… and want to actually DO it, or at least see people doing it.
I think in a small way, having a child has changed my perspective. I don't want her to get old enough to understand the world around her and ask me why I spent all my time reading about people living the life I want to, or why I spent all my time talking about living the life I want to, instead of just living the life I want to. Kids have a funny way of getting straight to the point and asking the tough questions (or so I'm told).
While I feel for and understand people who are still in a phase of their lives where blogging/twitter/social media is important, I think like all things in life it comes in seasons. Right now, I am no longer in that season. Right now my season is all about doing, and spending as much time as I can with my daughter, my wife, and people who are also out there making things happen.
Thank you for setting aside your current hesitance towards social media and writing this comment. You nailed quite a few points that have been floating around in my head for months now.
Wish we'd talked about this in Chicago, actually. Oh well, we still have Eminem.
The four whitest people in Chicago, driving around downtown in a Toyota Prius blaring Eminem… classic moment that will live in my memories forever =)
Also, we still need to have our fight on multi-sites =)
"Also, we still need to have our fight on multi-sites =)"
Oooh, I wanna be a fly on the wal for that one…
Only if I'm allowed to bring my fly swatter!
Brat…
do you think one can only give to one or the other? can you engage fully in social media as well as in your immediate community?
"fully engage" … probably not. At least not from the perspective of this new father.
I guess the better question for me, right now, is instead of "can you" is "why would you."
Please understand I don't mean that to sound harsh, but if I'm getting my community fix from my immediate local group, and a few select friends I keep in contact with more than just by reading a blog (one way communication, for the most part), why would I want to invest any more time in my life?
no…i totally get where youre at, bro.
love josh's answer: the gospel. =]
So….. if nobody's reading, why write?
I struggled with this a lot when I first started blogging (and nobody read).
It ultimately comes down to motive. Are you writing for you, or just to be read?
If you're writing because you want people to read what you have to say, well there are certainly ways to help make that happen in a timely order (be a commenting junky, share links, etc…), but usually those people end up not having a whole lot to offer.
This is an interesting question, because it hinges totally, as josh said, on the motives.
If you write to sell books, then you have to create an audience. If you write to create, then a reader is never an issue.
Same thing with the music world. Also, who is to say, that your voice doesnt become one that matters to someone else. I think we have to be faithful to our giftings and be stewards of what those giftings produce in and around us.
I think my greatest benefit is the creative outlet (for words, expression, design, video, music, whatever). Period. But I'd never admit that on my blog, because it'd be like saying "I don't care if y'all read. I'm just here to challenge myself creatively." but that wouldn't be the complete truth either, because I create as a communicator. And if there's no one to communicate to, then what's the point? Again… back to my question: if nobody's reading….?
(I miss your voice!)
This is so sad….
haha! Thinking the next step is hiring someone to fix it. Good news though, it's not just your site….I've stumbled across a few others that do the same. WEIRD and LAME.
nobody reads my personal handwritten journal…but i still write. this is just another form of release.
dang good answer
write for yourself. like a diary.
but, one could argue that it doesnt have to be in blog-format too.
My blog gives me a chance to be creative.
When I first started blogging I did got caught up in checking my blog stats everyday. That just added a level of stress I don't need. It made blogging less fun.
I guess it has everything to do with intention and purpose.
I've been writing for years, just recently started blogging. Writing has always been an outlet for me, something I am passionate about, that inspires me, that I am inspired to do. And… honestly, I started blogging more after my mom died. She was a much-loved woman and the onslaught of concern and questions and support was both touching and overwhelming. I got tired of answering the same useless quesion over and over again, while much more important questions were not being asked. I was tired of people asking, "Are you okay?" and not really waiting around for the follow up. I was longing for someone to ask me, "What was it like to have your mom die in your arms?" And of course, no one asks those questions. It's too uncomfortable.
I was mentally and emotionally struck with how poignant every moment had become after her death, as if every minute was full and bursting of things I both craved to hold onto and hoped to forget. Writing online both answered the gazillions of useless questions I was getting asked, and gave me a place to answer the questions I wasn't getting asked. Like… what went through my mind the minute they wheeled my mom's body out the front door.
And as morbid and as tragic as it is, there was such beauty in the love affair between me and Jesus that began that moment, that I could not keep to myself. I don't pretend that people want to hear that stuff. I usually hate being so transparent about things. And I've branched out from writing about just about her. However, life is soo full of poignancy, or breathtaking moments, that maybe seem old to others. Already done. Overused. But to others still, these moments have never been noticed before. The ideas are fresh to them, they are captivating, they are breathtaking.
We cannot discount where people are at, even though they may not be where we want them to be. We cannot forget that nothing is really new. To our Father who is outside of time, everything has already been done, we do not come up with anything new.
But we can experience a fresh revelation of a timeless truth. Something God has for us in this moment.
But … honestly… I believe that that kind of revelation comes from opening up the Bible and reading it. All the time. Without time in the Word, we grow stagnant. We don't really grow at all.
This is my rant. Wonder if I even answered your question.
i found out rather quickly who was really here to engage and who was not. those drive by comments i liken to the person at church who, while walking by asks …"hi tam! how ya doing?" yet, they continue on walking without even waiting for an answer.
its been worth the few years i've invested here to find some very close friends. i love everyone of them. the same as i love my friends who live 3 miles from me.
but to get to the meat of your reply…
" I believe that that kind of revelation comes from opening up the Bible and reading it. All the time. Without time in the Word, we grow stagnant. We don't really grow at all. "
i say – AMEN!
I, too, wanted to be a part of their discussion! But, alas, I was driving. (and peeking at the tweets, just not responding!) Their passion & pain is evident. But, not in a bad way. I think there are always days or weeks where I question who am I. Really. What will my legacy be. I don't want fame (although I could use fortune right now). I just want to make a difference in the lives around me. Family, strangers, internet peeps.
Even though we've never met IRL, you AND Brent have had an impact on my life. Even though there hasn't been a face-to-face, you are real people. Think of all the people you HAVE met through this internet thing! It's amazing. And we are in the same time zone, you know! People who touched your lives enough that you wanted to meet.
You know, Brent, everything you share doesn't have to touch everyone who hears or reads it. But, if there is just one person who stops and says, "he's saying what I needed to hear", it will have been worth the energy you spent sharing it!! Even now, as you & Joshua ponder what's next, people are watching to see what they can learn from the fact that this life is all about bumps in the road & plotting a solution. So many have come before us and blazed a trail. There is still (always) work to do.
Someone shared in a 12-step meeting today that their dad had always said to listen at least twice as much as you speak. That is a simple thing to think about, but not always easy to do. I love the response from Joshua about what is challenging him now!! Good answer!! Simple to pick The Gospel up, but not always easy to put into action.
Carry on, Brent. If you are taking apps for this small group you want to lead, I'm in! If David & Diane can walk out of this internet community & into the lives of people in the PNW (and Toledo & Kansas City), so can others.
Social media is the great connector, but not without a few bad apples. My husband & daughter both thought I had lost my mind 2 years ago when I started tweeting & blogging! All because of a chat room that Brody "built" while streaming MM live that 1st fall. 3 couples that I talk to every day are all going on the Music cruise together in 2 weeks. Never met each other. With my financial difficulties, I couldn't go, but I truly love those women! Social media has really changed my life for the better. It has given me a voice I didn't know I had. Or needed. It has helped me grow in my walk with Christ & in my recovery.
Thanks, Brent & Tam. You guys rock the world in your own way & I kinda like it!
there are still people in our lives who think we're crazy and that this whole social media thing is silly and a waste of time. thats okay. doesn't make it wrong. just makes it not important to them.
im glad you stuck with it anyway, shellie. does your family see how it all has impacted you?
we love you, shellie. and i have always enjoyed your participation here. you have a lot to offer!
I think so. I talk about said women like I had lunch with them today! He knows their names & which one lives where. And I know he wasn't sure about driving to Seattle to have lunch with Jenni & fam and Diane & David. And then to drive north of Seattle to pick up Nate. Ted had me ask Nate what kind of neighborhood he lived in! Which is funny since he used to run in the bad neighborhoods in Pittsburgh! All in all, he had a great time. He had a long convo with David. It's not the 1st time I have met up with tweeple. I drove 6 hours to Dallas in April 2009 for the Rock & Worship Roadshow. Met up & sat with 1 tweep and then stood in line for pics & autographs with another (chinakat79). We had a blast. Two women over 30 running around like teenagers! Priceless!!
“The Gospel”…Joshua
Brother that is flat out awesome. If the Gospel doesn’t challenge us. Nothing will
Where else is there to seek absolute truth?
"Where else is there to seek absolute truth?"
Completely agree.
But, how about general creative/knowledge inspiration?
I believe Christ was quite creative… Just saying
But to your point, each person finds that for themselves, and it really depends on the season the person is in. But it boils down to me to: What is the expectation of the author providing the knowledge?
For myself, reading blogs got very over whelming especially the feeling that I had to comment on every post. Funny thing is I feel much the same way about Facebook and Twitter. So I went back to reading books.
Books have no expectations other than a message to present. When you are done with the book you read, form opinion and thoughts, close it. Then you can ether use the new Knowledge or not. The author never knows.
We control the information going into our hearts/brains and how that information affects our communication of the information. Be it face to face, blogging, or social networks… It is really no different now than it was before the switch from no phones to phones… Every time the process of moving information changes there is an adjustment in society as it norms into the fabric of how we communicate. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace..Ect have been around now for 5-6ish years, and are now spanning generations, as young bring old into the mix. The youngest are just accepting it as norm because it is what is now. In 10 years it will be like the telephone… But I digress..
At this point I read 3 blogs.. Tam, Pastor T and Darla, They "connect" with me for some reason, and I can read and not comment without feeling like it is expected. I feel some people blog just to see how many comments they will get, and thus present information to illicit response.
To use Tam as an example: When she writes a post you get the feeling she genuinely wants to know about your life, and that is her motivation to be creative. (there was another person who I think lives under the same roof as Tam who did the same…but again I digress…) I read many of Tam's post's and never feel obligated or for lack of a better word manipulated into responding. That is why her blog holds a spot in my Links bar in Firefox.
Other blogs become so involved in producing information, they forget that the reader is an integral part of the Blog. If you want to read a blog that gets this interaction 100% correct check out http://kentuckysportsradio.com they get the interaction that has to happen, the running themes, jokes et al. They do the social aspect without it being expected….
All that to say. The expectation of the presenter vs receiver is the key to how information flows no matter the media the information is flowing through.
Shew… Hope that made since.
Peace.
Brent quick clarification: I believe you blogged for the same motivation as Tam… Sorry if that line in () was a bit confusing. Just wish you wrote a bit more…. Just saying…
Love that my blog is still involved
Thanks Carl. Good thoughts. And I appreciate the compliments!
carl…im sincerely honored that you still read here. and thank you for your very kind words!
youre right…reading blogs can get very overwhelming. i love to read them, but i rarely comment anymore. the reason: cuz i know i will get sucked into them. i'll invest too much of my day. i dont even subscribe to comment notification. i dont subscribe to twitter reply notification either. i have to have, and retain, some amount of control. the intake can get too much. and im okay with saying no.
So glad to know someone else doesn't subscribe to the comment notification!! Sometimes I come back, sometimes I don't. Depends on content & my time. Apparently I came back today…..
I don't think anything about these social media tools needs to change. I agree with you Tam, that we users control the content. We control who we chose to connect with. We decide how much time we spend on it.
I blog to meet people who I would not otherwise have the opportunity to meet, and to learn more about their world. Also it gives me the chance to express my creativity.
I am enjoying blogging more now than when I started. I find an increasing number of people blogging, tweeting, about what interest me, which is basically everything, everywhere. Everyday I am learning more about the world I live in.
Blogging, and the other social media, only become a bad thing when we chose make it so.
ive always seen that in you – that you seek to learn something from what, who, you read. youre getting everything out of it you can. i love it.
like i said to carl above…i dont comment a lot on blogs, i dont subscribe to comment notification, i dont have twitter reply notification, cuz i need to limit the amt of info that comes at me. i'll get to the replies eventually. i almost always respond, but i have to do it when i can, not because i feel obligated.
thank you brent
I have recently felt the same as Joshua. It has been difficult for me to want to engage in the online community for a lot of reasons. My number one is that i feel like i spent a lot of my time having conversations with my phone and computer. Now, i understand that there are real people on the other side of both of those amazing pieces of technology, but i felt like i was neglecting those around me. And just moving to a new city and needing the be very intentional about engaging with real people on a face to face level kind of took the lead….for me at least.
I also went through a season where i felt that my opinion was discredited so i didnt want to share it. but to be honest in the last month or so my computer has been on MAYBE 3 times. Yes, i check twitter and facebook with my phone and update as well, but the desire to spend time online sort of left me. But like i said, i am not anti any of it. I just didnt feel my life had anything worth sharing and it sounds harsh, but wanted to kind of silence all of the noise out for a little bit and focus on my marriage (which social media and my online time is a big argument starter), and the relationships i have within arms reach.
and i applaud and commend you for this!
although, i think you have plenty to say. youre a solid voice, lynse. dont let anyone tell you otherwise.
Thank you for that Tam.
I am trying to get back into the groove. It's hard when you haven't done it in a while. I do have several drafts waiting the publish button.
as usual my head is rolling all these thoughts around. i do see how there are areas where i need to be more picky and to just cut back in order to utilize my time in a better way. though, i know that part of it has become like reading mini books for me and one of my strengthsfinder strengths is input so i love gathering information. though, what's the point if i don't use it? hello balance.
the other thing for me is that "my people" are all over the world. having lived in africa for year and working with missions…you tend to gather people that aren't right here, right now. plus, then you throw in others who have that same like-minded heart and you've got all sorts of connections coming out of that. those people who get it. who get what it's like to have your heart being tugged all over and to be missing a home that's across an ocean…and well there are few people in my town that have been on mission trips let alone longer-term ones.
though, i will say i love the tweets with the stark reminder that the gospel is what should be stimulating and challenging us the most. i started doing a bible in 90 days program with another girly (she happens to live miles and miles away from me and we haven't "met" but we came together because of thrive—and well there are a few others that started doing it with us) and it's been amazing to dig deep while also getting the chance to connect across social mediums and just share in that unique way.
so it's another "yes and" in my life. use it wisely and like anything in life you can take a "good" thing and go to an extreme where it becomes unhealthy. oh life. =)
agreed!
its all about balance. and if its not good for one…its okay. it doesnt mean it should be dismissed by another.
we have to be responsible with our time wherever we invest it.
and i love your bible in 90 day tweets. i always look forward to them!
ah hahaha!
I love Josh’s answer.
I have a small circle I read, and once in awhile I check in at ones I used to peruse more frequently….but other than that…. not much.
And my own blog…yeah I want people to read something when I post it, but mostly, it’s for me and for our families to keep up with certain things…IF I post along those lines. ha!
Speaking of social media though….I’m doing a self imposed sort of “lent” again to end my year concerning FB. Nothing sucks me in more, and NONE of it is beneficial. Okay, some of it is, but it’s mostly just a time suck. I’m actually excited to spend 40 days off of it again! Here’s to focusing on the family and upcoming holidays! ;o)
as for what I still read almost daily:
gitz
alece
you
mandy (when I'm at a computer other than my own….it doesn't like her site for some reason!)
josh (baby pics always win)
ones I go back to visit on occassion:
ed
mckmama
angie smith
brandi wilson
and then there are those of friends and family that I read once in awhile…..
okay, so maybe it still looks like a lot. But it not everyday. I think. ha!
Wow, what a discussion! Again, I'm 9 hours ahead and thus behind….
To answer your question, I don't want anything to change. You said it in your post, "if you're not into social media, you won't get it".
If I were to change anything it would be those who fall in and out of love with social media every three weeks. They're either posting daily and heavily involved or talking about how tired of social media they are. The worst thing about it is these people are GOOD and I wish they would JUST WRITE!
But that kind of matches societies stamina. It seems no one wants to do anything for an extended amount of time…..cuz they get bored with it. I find that point more true with the "super-creatives" and I can understand that…..they are CREATIVES, so CREATING new things is their gig, so the old gigs get old quick.
For me though, I used to blog to be read. I tried to be as controversial as I could be so people would come. I did all of the things Josh talked about above…..commented on Los's blog on EVERY post and did the same on LOTS of blogs, but only those who had lots of readers. I wouldn't comment on a blog like mine….not enough exposure….
Today, I don't write as much, but I read 10 times as much and what I do write usually revolves around some aspect of my immediate life. I'd love to tell you that I write for me and for God and that's that, but I believe 95% of the folks who say that are fooling themselves.
Albeit small in comparison, I know where my sphere of influence is. I know WHO reads my blog and I write directed at them. Yeah, there's the occasional "newbie", but for the most part, I know my audience and I'd like to think I know what is important to them. I also know that my wife and I have a HUGE family who read my blog and I can guarantee you my blog is the only one they read. So, I write to them.
Sorry to ramble here Tam, but I think that's the point…….know your audience and write to them and if you end up comforting, motivating, and/or teaching yourself, then it's even better.
I'm 5,000 miles away from the face-to-face community ya'all enjoy over there. Without social media, there's no Tam, Mandy, Nicole, Alece, Jenni for me. I consider you all my friends and it would get VERY expensive visiting you all if it weren't for your blogs. I just can't fathom the idea…….keep writing!
I used to read many blogs.. It's very rare if do anymore. AND like Tammy I barely comment anymore.
Some of it is because I had spent most of my day on them and I wasn't focusing on work.
Some of it is because, the people behind the blog weren't giving the "truth"
Some of it is because I lost alot of trust to be transparent, I got hurt in the upheaval by some "blog writers"
Some of it's because this year has just been tough lately and instead of dropping the moments I have had, I drop them into lives around me like my kids, special girlfriends, and the word.
Sometimes I am there reading and you don't know I am. So KEEP writing.
Now, I write on mine once a month, I get comments here or there, but I still go there, it's my outlet. I was never a superstar in blogging. But I am thankful in January that a magazine picked up one of my posts. But, I like many like to just write. Not for you per say, but as an expression of worship for me.
The funny thing is that I used to lament that no one reads my blog. It's true very few visit there. But, then I realized it isn't why I write at all. i write as an outlet. Somedays I think people are really just stumbling in on my conversations with Christ and that makes others nervousI used to want to be read. Now, I don't know. I think it is a lie to say I don't care about that at all. Yet, I don't dwell there..
I have had friends who just have been crushed by the weight of comments on their blog. So I think I am thankful that most of the time I don't get a lot of comments. We have lost our social graces. We make comments to be heard. We have come to believe that only our opinions matter. We don't think of blogs as extensions of people. We think of them as things.
But, I think we used to believe that we could be truly vulnerable on a blog. That's why they were fresh. Or it used to be about the shock factor. I went through a blogging phase where I honestly thought I just didn't have enough issues. Man, I have enough quirks and baggage I don't need anymore. But, there is so much that can't be said if we are really honest. So much of our story that isn't ready to be told yet, or others aren't ready to hear. As much as we say it can happen it just can't. We are just too human. We read the words, don't know the person and we judge. I think in my own story of those close to me that just can't handle my heart yet. We can talk intimately, but really putting it out there for the WHOLE world to see would wound them deeply. As much as I would love to tell it in that form, I need to wait.
I think many have been wounded by the weigh of words thrown at them. The hiding behind "anonymous" comments that point fingers has made many just hide in the recesses of fluff. Those that used to bare their soul now spend most of the time with fluff. Not that this is bad, however, it makes me really sad. We point fingers and taunt and are down right mean with people we don't even know. Don't get me wrong- fluff is good. It helps me with another side of sort of "getting to know you." But I believe many are staying in those shadows, because being exposed again is too exhausting.
Funny thing is I wrote just yesterday about how the true sense of online "community" eludes me. Pen pals are great. However, they don't know the deepest parts of me. I don't always know them either. Community is as much up to me as others. So that means that it is up to me to define it.
In the end it is too exhausting to be anyone other than me. So I write. I tweet. I stumble all over myself. But, the Gospel is what propels me. That is where life comes from. Part of the Gospel is loving others as myself. I can't only do that on a machine. I have to get out and touch the world.
That means some days there is more time on here than other. Depends.
Great discussion Tam – I know you have been circling around this for awhile since the one post you wrote "is blogging dead" – I think about that post a lot.
I'm taking a 2 week break while I'm in Africa to re-evaluate why I'm writing… and where God is taking my blog… also, I want to work on developing and learning photography and there isn't enough time in teh day to do everything… sooooo
mmm but I do love writing and connecting… I just don't have time to do it anymroe like I used to
Does Brent still need something new?
My voice isn't fresh and I don't know that what I have to say is as relevant as what he might be looking for, but I think he might find this one a bit…thought provoking:
http://thenoreaster.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/let-…